Philosophy and the idea of the good

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juu
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Philosophy and the idea of the good

Unread postby juu » 20 Nov 2016 21:12

:greetings-waveyellow:


Ive always seen old philophy as something important.. but.. never really read a lot.. Now, I have this urge.. or desire to read more… and I have.. not too much.. especially Plato, since I find fascinating hes way of perceiving a society and how It should work.
The more I read, I feel, my “soul” understands it better.. or remember.. even If at first or still, cant discuss it fully… is like the knowledge gets to me, but in a “soul” level..¿?
I love how Plato talks about the idea or form of the good.. and how this idea is superlative to all… It cannot be explained fully.. but it is there… it is the idea that forms all the others.. I dont want to sound egotistical.. but I think I have an idea of what it is… this idea is what truly makes us evolve.. and finding harmony as a society is the ultímate goal.

He says that a society, or a state should behave as a being. With the reason, being the one that governs… that is why, philopher kings (dont know exactly what he means by this.. I guess, beings or entities in higher evolutionary steps, wich understand better the idea of the good) should be the ones that governs…
I understood that in this world, in this society we in fact need “rulers” and some kind of hierarchy.. but teh ones who govern us, must have a higher knowldge of the idea of the good…all societies of beings need teachers.. and beings wich can guide and decide what is better for the whole.. always with reason. Reason is the key to evolve.. with reason you can pretty much explain and understand behaviour and distinct what is wrong and what is right.. Reason is the best tool we got to understand truly the idea of the good.

The problem with philosophy.. is that, as we know already.. since ages there has been this kind of “competition” for the evolution of this society…. So.. other philosophers takes an idea of notion wigh is correcto r light, and change it a bit.. and mislead the people… for example this idea of the good, later evolve into what we know now as god.. and you can understand how OIC people when they are wrongly claiming that god is in all of us, and we all are one.. without knowing they are refering to the ultímate idea… the idea of the good.. wich resides inside all of us..

I found very interesting Reading some about rethoric.. and how sophists were in fact darks.. charging fees and teaching this devious art to aristócrats and people who can only afford it… Rethoric is persuasión… is selling an idea with emotion involved.. they can easily influence others by the use of correct words… Protagoras I think is one huge dark … wich his ideas were later used to mislead society with the statement “man is the measure of all things”…
Maybe deep inside me, I knew what this was… and how rethoric and persuation are not the correct way of reaching someone.. maybe this is what leads me to hating advertising.. and choosing not to pratice it..

Platon (I prefer Platon over Plato.. as in spanish plato is plate.. so it sounds weird everytiome I use this word..haha) talks about dialectic… and how with reasoning, a discussion can lead to understanding better important subjects… is nothing like a debate… because there are no winner or loosers, or some jury wich chooses what argument is the winner.. (see how rethoric throughout history won over dialect.. and how our present society relies on this.. how lawyers or advertisers try to sell ideas by using emotion and other methods to make the jury or people accept the argument… this tell you how after platon and after fucking jesus betrayed light .. evolution was in favor of the darks.. and society started evolving with wrong ideas or forms…)

This and many other reasons is why I consider Protoi to be the new philosophers (or philosopher kings).. and how they use, in this fórum, this kind of socratic method to reach the more objective truth… in this fórums we have discussions… with philosophers students coming out with a particular theme or subject to discuss it.. and how protoi or more “advance” members take the dialogue in a more correct direction and using reasoning as the tool for reaching “enlightment” wich is just really understanding truly the idea/form of the good.. and how by knowing it… and understanding what truly justice is, the being could never be unjust.. so.. with reasoning we can confirm that light is the true path, and darkness isnt.

:romance-grouphug:
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Δύναμις
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Re: Philosophy and the idea of the good

Unread postby Δύναμις » 21 Nov 2016 20:52

juu wrote:This and many other reasons is why I consider Protoi to be the new philosophers (or philosopher kings).. and how they use, in this fórum, this kind of socratic method to reach the more objective truth… in this fórums we have discussions… with philosophers students coming out with a particular theme or subject to discuss it.. and how protoi or more “advance” members take the dialogue in a more correct direction and using reasoning as the tool for reaching “enlightment” wich is just really understanding truly the idea/form of the good.. and how by knowing it… and understanding what truly justice is, the being could never be unjust.. so.. with reasoning we can confirm that light is the true path, and darkness isnt.


:text-thankyoublue: juu :romance-kisscheek:
The majority of the readers have probably no idea what exactly you are referring to and most of them won't bother understand it because is sounds too complicated.
Platon/ Πλάτων used to say that "folks will only live in peace if the king philosophizes and the philosopher governs" / "όταν οι φιλόσοφοι βασιλέψουν και οι βασιλιάδες φιλοσοφήσουν, μόνο τότε θα ευτυχήσουν οι λαοί".
(from: Republic / Πολιτεία)

This statement of yours is quite amazing in my opinion. I wondered if we could accept it at all, but given that we haven't found anyone to prove us wrong so far, then you are probably right. We are far away from claiming ourselves kings (kings, lords etc. are all dark terms and jobs), but we do philosophize a lot looking for the greater good (= αγαθόν / Agathon, where i.e. the name Agatha comes from). Let's say that we are somehow the philosopher leaders for now.
What really amazes me is not the statement itself, but your own maybe still unknown skill of such a broad/expanded perception of the forum which enables you to get the bigger picture and not get caught on meaningless details.

:romance-grouphug:
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eternalullaby
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Re: Philosophy and the idea of the good

Unread postby eternalullaby » 21 Nov 2016 23:48

I actually understand exactly what you're referring to, juu, because I'm in a Rhetoric and Public Issues class. I guess I've acquired at least some useful knowledge at school :wink:
And I agree with you! I especially resonate with your last bit concerning the Protoi/philosopher king parallel :happy-sunshine:
:text-goodpost:

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